Richarddawkins.net'e Erişim ENGELLENDİ!

[frodo]

Aslında yasa gereği kapatmayı yapan kim ise TİB'e bilgi vermekle yükümlü. Bu yasaklamanın kim tarafından yapıldığını bilmiyorum deme hakkına sahip değil TİB.

Ek bir bilgi öğrendik; TİB Türkiye'deki servis sağlayıcılarına yasakl uygulama hakkı vermiş.
Yani en azından 20 kuruluş (servis sağlayıcı) yasak uygulayabilir. Ancak bu yasaklamanın
gerekçesini (mahkeme, tedbir karar numarası) yasaklama yapılan siteye asmak durumunda.
Dawkins'in sitesi bu durumda kim vurduya gitmiş görünüyor.

O zaman yapılması gereken TİB'in zorlanarak yasağın gerekçelerine ve uygulayıcısına ulaşmaya çalışmaktır..

Bu nedenle ne kadar çok soran olursa TİB'in meseleyi çözmesi o kadar hızlı olacaktır.

[dilaver]

TİB den gelen cevaba karşı şu iletiyi gönderdik.

Sayın yetkili

5651 sayılı kanunun 8/3 maddesi şöyle yazıyor :

(3) Hâ­kim, mah­ke­me ve­ya Cum­hu­ri­yet sav­cı­sı ta­ra­fın­dan ve­ri­len eri­şi­min en­gel­len­me­si ka­ra­rı­nın bi­rer ör­ne­ği, ge­re­ği ya­pıl­mak üze­re Baş­kan­lı­ğa gön­de­ri­lir.

Sizin haberiniz olmaması düşünülemez. Gene aynı kanunun 2/b fıkrasına göre


Baş­kan­lık: Ku­rum bün­ye­sin­de bu­lu­nan Te­le­ko­mü­ni­kas­yon İle­ti­şim Baş­kan­lı­ğı­nı, ifade ediyor, yani kurumunuzu.

Ayrıca her kim bu engellemeyi yaptıysa gerekçesini ve kararı veren mahkemenin ismi ile, karar sayısını da asmalı degil miydi.

Mahkeme bir suç unsuru tespit ettiyse bize buna saygı duymak düşer, ama rastgele asılmış bir engel kararı haklı olarak kuşku uyandırmaktadır.

Erişim engellenmesinin bir numaralı uygulayıcısı olan başkanlıgınızın bu hatayı düzeltmesi gerekmektedir.

Unutmayın ki bahse konu olan kişi dünyanın önde gelen bilim adamlarındandır. Ve şayet en azından prosedüre uygun davranırsanız ülkemizin ve telekomun İngiliz basınında alay konusunu olmasını engelleyebilirsiniz.

Ben bir birey olarak sitenin hangi gerekçe ile yasaklandıgını ögrenmek istiyorum. Birey olarak bilgiye ulaşımımın engellendigini düşünüyorum.

Sizlerin de gereken hassasiyeti göstereceginizi görmek istiyorum. Her kim engellemişse mahkeme kararını ve sayısını asmak bu kadar mı zordur.

saygılarımla

[kör_saatçi]

Bakanlık bu şekilde üzerindeki yükü hafifletmiş oluyor ve sistemli kapatmalar dört koldan sürdürülebiliyor, tabii bu arada halkın ne bilgi alma özgürlüğü ne de şeffaflık söz konusu... Kesinlikle anti-demokratik ve bir an evvel tepki koyulması gereken bir durum.

Bence konuyu basına taşımak gerekiyor. Emaillerle bakanlığa tepki gösterilse bile sümen altı etmeye devam edeceklerdir.

[kör_saatçi]

Ben şöyle bir metin hazırladım:

Sayın Yetkili,

İngiltere'de çok saygın bir bilim insanı olan ve dünyaca da ses getirmiş yayınların sahibi sayın Richard Dawkins'in resmi sitesinin, çok talihsiz bir şekilde, mahkeme kararıyla engellendiğini öğrendik.

Yapılan kapatma uyarısı dışında hangi mahkemenin bu kararı uyguladığını, mahkeme ve dava numarasını açıklayan hiçbir ibare bulunmamaktadır.

Şeffaflık gereği, vatandaşlar olarak bu bilgilerin bize verilmesi ya da yansıtılması/duyurulması zorunludur.

Kaldı ki böylesi saygın bir bilim insanının resmi sitesine, sanki sıradan bir siteymiş gibi habersizce yapılan kapatma, dünya kamuoyunda büyük tepkilere neden olacaktır. Avrupa Birliği'ne üye olma savaşımı veren bir ülkenin vatandaşları olarak böylesi bir tavrın da negatif etkiye neden olacağı kuşkusuzdur.

Bu nedenle bakanlığınızca, kapatılma kararıyla ilgili bir açıklama yapılmasını ya da kamuoyuna duyurulmasının gerekliliğinin büyük bir önem taşığıdını belirterek, ilginize arz ederim.

[evrensel-insan]

Saygideger arkadaslar;

Buraya, R.Dawkins'in sitesine yaptigi kendi bireysel yorumunu aktariyorum.

Re: Richarddawkins.net banned in Turkey
by Richard Dawkins on Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:29 am

It is hard to know how to handle this, while having little inside knowledge of Turkey and no knowledge at all of the language. We have many helpful and loyal volunteers from around the world.
http://richarddawkins.net/volunteers
I would be extremely grateful for any Turkish volunteers who might step forward to give advice and translations.
Thanks
RichardRichard Dawkins
Charles Simonyi Chair for the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University

Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:37 am
Website

Tercumesi: Turkiye nin ic meseleleriyle ilgili cok az bilgi sahibi olarak ve dilini hic bilmeyen biri olarak bu, konu nasil ele alinir, bunu bilmek cok zor. Bizim, tum dunya capinda cok yararli ve bu konuya sadik gonullulerimiz var.
Bize oneri getirecek ve tercume yapacak Turkiyeli gonullulerin one cikmasi beni cok mutlu kilacak.
Tesekkurler.

Ayrica sitede, cok cesitli yorumlar var.Isin bir de ilginc tarafi, bu yasaklanmayi harun yahya'ya bagliyanlar var.Yani, ve guya, o ve onun gibilerin bu siteye erisememesi icin bu yasak karari alinmis.Ayrica, oneriler arasinda; bu konunun insan haklari mahkemesine tasinmasini onerenler var.

Saygilarimla;
evrensel-insan

[kör_saatçi]

Olay giderek ilginçleşiyor ve derinine inildikçe Denizfeneri olayı gibi türlü pislik çıkacak, emin olun.

[evrensel-insan]

Saygideger arkadaslar;

Ilgilenenler icin, sitenin bu konuyla ilgili yorum sayfasini buraya alintiliyorum.Yalniz tercume etmemi beklemeyin benden.Cok, gerekli olursa, istenen ve onemli bazi yorumlari tercume edebilirim.

Richarddawkins.net banned in Turkey
For discussion of politics, and what's going on in the world today.

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Post a reply 86 posts • Page 1 of 4 • 1, 2, 3, 4
Richarddawkins.net banned in Turkey
by muhtesem insan on Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:44 pm

Yep it's banned. Probably because of Harun Yahya thread.
Mustafa Kemal Atatürk wrote:
Science is the most reliable guide for civilization, for life, for success in the world. Searching a guide other than the science is meaning carelessness, ignorance and heresy.
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Re: Richarddawkins.net banned in Turkey
by Randy Ping on Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:57 pm

What are they scared of.... oh yeah, truth.
Goldenmane wrote:
God, if he exists, is a fucking incompetent. I wouldn't hire him to build a bookcase.
(Of course, if I did, he'd build it just big enough to hold one book... and that book wouldn't be Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.)
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Re: Richarddawkins.net banned in Turkey
by Strontium Dog on Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:17 pm

muhtesem insan wrote:
Yep it's banned


So how come you're posting on here then if your location is Istanbul?
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Re: Richarddawkins.net banned in Turkey
by Timnotgod on Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:19 pm

Randy Ping wrote:
What are they scared of.... oh yeah, truth.


Why then is the first link I find to Harun Yahya proclaiming it an invitation to truth?
I wouldn't think they are scared of the truth just scared that their nonsense isn't as the truth as they proclaim, and are all victims of one of the best con artists the world has known.

I also would like to put forward that the ban in turkey could be because the God Delusion book was accused of inciting religious hatred a year ago in Turkey.

muhtesem insan, If you are in Istanbul doesn't that mean you are being a smooth criminal by viewing this wonderful website?
Signature I had to have.
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Re: Richarddawkins.net banned in Turkey
by Secularist on Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:19 pm

muhtesem insan wrote:
Yep it's banned. Probably because of Harun Yahya thread.

you can use proxy.
http://www.torproject.org/
faithfreedom international Islam watch
Iran Press News Regime change Iran

the lion mean freedom of religion.

"For we are Persians,our nation was not built on slavery, death, and murder" - Proud Persian
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Re: Richarddawkins.net banned in Turkey
by binocular on Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:43 pm

What thread now?

Muhtesem insan, has this been on the news in Turkey or is it just under the radar?
What once were
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access to richarddawkins.net has been banned in Turkey
by mulder on Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:10 pm

Hi guys from Turkey!
at around 17:00 GMT I just wanted to check out the news at http://www.richarddawkins.net, however, I was faced by a white blank screen,in the middle saying in red ''Access to this site has been denied by court order'' Disgruntled and also frustrated,I am now using indirect links to tell you guys this unjust action taken by the government.
''we are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in,some of us just go one god further.''mulder
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Re: access to richarddawkins.net has been banned in Turkey
by Darwinsbulldog on Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:13 pm

Hi mulder,

and a warm welcome to you.

It is very unfortunate that your government has decided to go the way of censorship. I mean, if they think that their way of life is so obviously the best one, then any criticism of that should not matter. Anyway, I sympathise. Enjoy the discussions!

Surf carefully, and cover your tracks!
Complete works of Charles Darwin [free] http://darwin-online.org.uk/
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/


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Re: access to richarddawkins.net has been banned in Turkey
by Randy Ping on Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:14 pm

Yes, it's been brought to our attention in Politics & Current affairs. THanks though.
Goldenmane wrote:
God, if he exists, is a fucking incompetent. I wouldn't hire him to build a bookcase.
(Of course, if I did, he'd build it just big enough to hold one book... and that book wouldn't be Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.)
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Re: access to richarddawkins.net has been banned in Turkey
by spaghettifier on Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:24 pm

proxy server?
anyway i'm glad that no matter how bad egypt is at protecting rights, they wouldn't ban any sites... anyway if hey do i would get around it

th government is scared that you would learn the truth, or they got in a fight with richard
Every man has a right to his own opinion, not a right to his own facts.
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Re: access to richarddawkins.net has been banned in Turkey
by Double Bass Atheist on Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:28 pm

It would seem unlikely that there has been been a court order banning RDnet exclusively... any idea how many other websites are now banned as well?
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Re: access to richarddawkins.net has been banned in Turkey
by binocular on Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:29 pm

Multiple thread. Merge please.
What once were
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Re: access to richarddawkins.net has been banned in Turkey
by articulett on Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:51 pm

So Turkey is afraid of people thinking freely. Hurray for those who are able to find away over the barriers! I hope the more they try to "censor", the more people will be eager to see exactly what it is their government finds so in need of censoring.
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Re: access to richarddawkins.net has been banned in Turkey
by Ashish Lahiri on Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:53 pm

mulder wrote:
Hi guys from Turkey!
at around 17:00 GMT I just wanted to check out the news at http://www.richarddawkins.net, however, I was faced by a white blank screen,in the middle saying in red ''Access to this site has been denied by court order'' Disgruntled and also frustrated,I am now using indirect links to tell you guys this unjust action taken by the government.

That's very encouraging. That shows that the medicine is working. The sooner the masks of tolerance are torn off the religious rulers, the better. We should only wait for such things to happen in that citadel of democracy, the USA.Ashish Lahiri
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Re: access to richarddawkins.net has been banned in Turkey
by balper on Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:42 pm

Second time I'm writing, don't know what happened. Just connected (thanks blackberry) and wanted to ask if they would be anyone from Turkey to take this matter to the European Human Rights Court?

You can best reach me via email. Don't know if I'm allowed to write it but as this is a force majeur case thoght I'd try: basaranalper(@)gmail.combalper
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Re: access to richarddawkins.net has been banned in Turkey
by solas on Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:35 pm

balper wrote:
.... wanted to ask if there would be anyone from Turkey to take this matter to the European Human Rights Court?


That is a very good point, not from the legal perspective but from the European one. I am not a lawyer but I doubt very much if any action on this issue through the EHRC would succeed (it would take years in any case). However, the Turkish establishment is very sensitive to any issue which might impede them in their negotiations to join the European Union. Political action is therefore more likely to bring results than legal acion. If a lot of Turkish individuals and organisations simply wrote to the EU Commission protesting at the undemocratic, and very anti-European, policy of the Turkish authorities in banning a legitimate website, then I think that such a protest could yield significant results.

It would also help greatly if individuals and organisations in existing EU member states wrote to the Commission making the point that this incident shows that Turkey is not yet ready to be accepted as a candidate for EU membership. My letter is already winging it way to Brussels.solas
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Re: Richarddawkins.net banned in Turkey
by muhtesem insan on Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:06 am

well technically we don't need proxy to access to site. Because law lets to prohibit access to a web site not a server so by using a dns server outside turkey (using root dns right now) i can easily access here. And there's no prosecution risk for me, this ban binds isp's and host's not users.
They can't ban a site because it's spreading atheism, but this harun yahya crowd usually use personal insult as an excuse and bans the access to these sites. But i don't know if this is the case, one of the largest community sites in turkey ek$i sozluk suffered from same fate but with efforts of some lawyers in the community, court revoked the ban. but especially small sites and foreign sites suffer from this. Youtube is banned for months.
Mustafa Kemal Atatürk wrote:
Science is the most reliable guide for civilization, for life, for success in the world. Searching a guide other than the science is meaning carelessness, ignorance and heresy.
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Re: Richarddawkins.net banned in Turkey
by vsop44 on Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:29 am

I hope it's not because of my signature and avatar !
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Re: Richarddawkins.net banned in Turkey
by sunny on Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:36 am

Outrageous. I for one shall never eat another turkey again so long as I live.sunny
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Re: Richarddawkins.net banned in Turkey
by slhamilton on Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:55 am

sunny wrote:
Outrageous. I for one shall never eat another turkey again so long as I live.

Sunny, you are a man of great wisdom and courage. You are an inspiration to us all.
Cheese goes good with eggs.
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Richarddawkins.net is banned in TURKEY
by f451 on Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:07 pm

WARNING TO ALL USERS:

I'm a Richarddawkins.net member from Turkey and Turkish government banned richarddawkins.net to all Turkish users.

I've changed my DNS servers to reach this site.

The comments about Adnan Oktar on this link is the banning reason to the court:
http://richarddawkins.net/article,2583, ... ce,Reuters

The desicion of the court is a shame for free-thinking!

This is not first case of Adnan Oktar (or Harun Yahya)

Turkish court banned whole (!) wordpress for a complaint of Adnan Oktar because of the comments on the some blogs about him!

Is there a way to contact with Mr. Dawkins about this issue.

This is very important!
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Re: Richarddawkins.net banned in Turkey
by Paula Kirby on Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:49 pm

Can anyone provide a link to an official report about the ban (preferably in English, of course)? I'd love to see the reasons given by the court.
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Re: Richarddawkins.net banned in Turkey
by NineBerry on Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:52 pm

While we have so many turkish people on this thread:

Could someone please translate this article:
http://www.ankarahaber.com/news_detail.php?id=17785

?

Thanks
Religion seeks discipline through fear. It doesn't understand the true nature of creation.
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Re: Richarddawkins.net banned in Turkey
by f451 on Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:01 pm

The site can be reached at the moment.

There is no legal explanation and we are in doubt that this can be a hacking issue.

We were unable to reach the site but then it is released suddenly. In the banned message there was a warning of "this site has been banned in accordance with the legal action" but normally there has to be an explanation and number/date of the court taken. Here is the screen capture: http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/1560/richardddm3.jpg

This Turkish source -not official of course- claims that the site is banned because of some comments on the related link:

http://sozluk.sourtimes.org/show.asp?t= ... apatilmasi
Last edited by f451 on Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Richarddawkins.net banned in Turkey
by Matt7895 on Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:52 pm

Astonishing. I thought Turkey was proud of being secular. Of course, thats just a facade, but I thought they'd make some effort to make it look as if they were still secular.

By the way I'm talking about the Turkish State, not its people.

One only needs to look back at Turkish history to see how they love silencing opposition, particularly relating to their revolution and its leader. For example, Boris Johnson's great grandfather was lynched by a mob simply by writing newspaper articles critical of the revolution. It's seen as a taboo to speak against the revolutionaries in Turkey, much like it is seen as taboo in the U.S. to speak against the founding fathers. Difference is, the U.S. doesn't block websites.

I know there are lots of people in Turkey that do desire secular democracy, and I can only hope they win the struggle.
"Superstition ain't the way."
Stevie Wonder, Superstition

Saygilarimla;
evrensel-insan

[kör_saatçi]

Bu arada bakanlıktan gelen mesajı Richarddawkins.net forumuna aktaracağım.

Böylece oraya gelen Türk kullanıcılar durum hakkında bilgi sahibi olup bakanlığa email yollayabilirler.

[kör_saatçi]

TIB'e yazdığım mesaja istinaden gelen cevap size iletilen mesajın birebir aynısıydı. (Yazdığım içerikle cevabın bir alakası olmamasına rağmen.)

Bu da açıklama yapmaktan çekinceleri olduğu üzerine şüphe oluşturuyor.

[dilaver]

TİB e gönderdigim ikinci mesaja gelen yanıtta, kurumun 5651 sayılı kanun ile ilgili direkt yetkisi ve ilgisi oldugu belirtiliyor. Ancak 5651 sayı kanun dışında ceza kanununu ilgilendiren karar ve tedbirlerde hukuk mahkemelerinin kararı ile ilgili servis saglayıcılarının da yetkisi oldugundan bahsediliyor.

Yani sitenin 5651 sayılı kanun hükümleri ile kapatılmadıgı anlaşılıyor. Hukuk mahkemeleri ise hakaret vs gibi konulara bakar. Demek ki bu işin tipik bir HY klasigi oldugu anlaşılıyor. Tüm diger sitelere yaptıkları gibi herhangi bir mahkemeden karar çıkarttılar ve dava süreci içerisinde tedbir olarak da sitenin kapanmasını istediler.

Önümüzdeki görev kararı veren mahkemeyi tespit edip, tedbirin kalkması yönünde müracaatta bulunmaktır.

saygılarımla